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chuckster
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subject: Ohio State Attack
I'm simply shocked and amazed that the recent attack on innocent people at Ohio State was perpetrated by a Muslim. Aren't you?

message 11971/11999 2016-11-29 13:57:25 (utc)
jadefalcon1
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to chuckster in message #11971:
Nice to see yet another person I used to respect is an islamophobic bigot.

~Jade Falcon
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"When people are presented with a choice between hate and love, they will choose hate. When choosing between bigotry and tolerance, they will choose bigotry. And when they are presented with the easiest of all, good or evil, bet on evil. Because it's easy." ~ me
message 11972/11999 2016-11-29 21:01:51 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to jadefalcon1 in message #11972:
Oscar Wilde once said, "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of an eye. The more light you pour on it, the more it contracts."

Considering the death and destruction Islam, the religion of peace, continues to visit upon our world, and the apparent fact that you turn a blind eye to such, makes me question just who the real bigot is here. It's not Muslims, per se, that concern me, it's Muslims that actually believe and act on what their bullshit scripture calls for them to do. I'm just glad the Christians have calmed down a bit over the ages, or you might be calling me a Christiophobic bigot.







message 11973/11999 2016-11-30 00:47:09 (utc)
mq
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to jadefalcon1 in message #11972:
For the record, I hate all religious adherents equally.

drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 11974/11999 2016-11-30 01:11:56 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to mq in message #11974:
Well said, you bigot. ;)

message 11975/11999 2016-11-30 01:48:11 (utc)
literallysublime
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to chuckster in message #11973:
"Ireland in the 80's" would like a word with you; also abortion clinics and their doctors and many rural areas of the south and midwest would offer a difference of opinion on whether Christians have calmed down. I mean, sure it's not the vast majority of Christians. No true scotsman, er baptist, would shoot an abortion doctor in the entrance of his church, right?

Despite the sarcasm I still take the opposite tack of you and mq though. I don't hate religion or religious adherents. Faith is something that I think is part of the human experience. I also think its largely cultural. For me, I have difficulty placing blame on dusty iron age tomes rather than on the culture or even more rightly the individual who nurtures acts of violence. For example, see the human rights abuses perpetrated by the USSR. Bad people will do bad stuff with or without a faith system; and if adhering to a particular dogma helps even a handful of people treat each other better, well I'm hard pressed not to be alright with that.



Listen carefully to me old devil, I'm only interested in two things. See if you can guess what they are.
message 11976/11999 2016-12-20 05:38:44 (utc)
hade119
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to literallysublime in message #11976:
Ireland is the 80s wasn't so much about religion as it was about freedom. Ireland was about one country (who happened to be of a certain religion) occupying another country (of a different religion), and the later wanting to be free...

message 11977/11999 2016-12-21 00:25:51 (utc)
mq
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to literallysublime in message #11976:
Lovely idea. However in practice, most religion has done its utmost to stifle progress in fear of its own obsolences. Sure when isolated hunter/gatherers first wandered into agrarian practices and only the mearest hints of complex stratified society were forming did religion play an important stabilizing role.

But once humanity began to lift the veil of ignorance required for faith, instead of adapting and keeping current, most religious practitioners sought to stifle the advancement of human achievement. Often through hideous and inhumane means. I'm afraid the lens of history disagrees strongly with your assertion that for the sake of the ingroup the outgroup can be sacrificed.

If the mega church is the pinicle of western religion, I'll keep my humble sciences.

drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 11978/11999 2016-12-21 05:10:25 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to literallysublime in message #11976:
And when adhering to a particular dogma helps people to denigrate, enslave, even kill in the name of their religion?



message 11979/11999 2016-12-22 05:15:01 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to literallysublime in message #11976:
Testing 1, 2, 3.

message 11980/11999 2016-12-24 04:15:54 (utc)
literallysublime
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to chuckster in message #11980:
Apologies, I've always been a sporadic poster at best. I take your point, however, I don't agree with you that it's the system of belief that is more responsible than the act of the individual. I can play tu quoque with the best of them (Chairman Mao, Kim Jong-Il, Stalin). Is it unfair to say that their lack of faith or belief have also caused their adherents to commit atrocities? Certainly the system CAN contribute. I'm not disputing that. I'm just don't believe in tossing the baby out with the bathwater. How many people have been relieved to see faith based organizations arrive and render aid during times of disaster? The quote "Preach the Gospel every day, when necessary, use words" is famously attributed to St. Francis of Assisi; but before that the Golden Rule to Christ himself "DO unto others as you would have them do unto you" (emphasis mine). Does the discussion we're having boil down to can the positives of religion ever outweigh the negatives? I choose to believe it can, whether I devote myself to one or not.

Listen carefully to me old devil, I'm only interested in two things. See if you can guess what they are.
message 11981/11999 2016-12-25 07:36:18 (utc)
literallysublime
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to mq in message #11978:
I'd disagree with you on your concept of "most." I think that "most" people who have some religious affiliation pick at it like a buffet, where a small but very vocal minority managed to push their world view more effectively than the vast majority who are generally more concerned with living than debating theology vs. science because they know that there really isn't a debate to be had there.

Also, given the choice between a mega church and science I too would rather sit through a physics lecture.

Listen carefully to me old devil, I'm only interested in two things. See if you can guess what they are.
message 11982/11999 2016-12-25 07:40:14 (utc)
literallysublime
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to hade119 in message #11977:
Your interpretation of the troubles is more accurate, I was just using hyperbole to make my point.

Listen carefully to me old devil, I'm only interested in two things. See if you can guess what they are.
message 11983/11999 2016-12-25 07:41:25 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Ohio State Attack
in reply to literallysublime in message #11981:
Paraphrasing St. Francis of Assisi, I used to have a t-shirt that said, "Preach the Gospel, Use Words if You Have To." It was one of my favorites, even though my worldview is atheistic. My son was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist environment, but when he was rejecting his upbringing and embracing logic, reason, and science, I often encouraged him not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

You ask is it unfair to say that Chairman Mao's and others' lack of faith or belief have caused their adherents to commit atrocities? I would say yes, it is unfair to assume such. Possibly had they been more theistically religious, their innate cruelty (or whatever the fuchsia was wrong with them) would have been curtailed to some degree or another. On the flip side however, they might well have leaned on the darker aspects of scripture to justify their actions. After all, Hitler claimed he was a Catholic and would always remain so. He is also quoted as saying, “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

You ask, "...can the positives of religion ever outweigh the negatives?" As far as Abrahamic desert god religions go, I would answer only if the adherents cherry pick the good from from the barbaric roots from which these religions sprang. The problem with the written scriptures that have made it to the present, is that they bring their barbaric past with them. Interestingly, and salient to our current problem with Islam, is that Christianity has a couple of escape valves built into it. One is the scriptures of the New Testament which were mostly made up by, or at least interpreted by, the men that wrote them down decades or more after the death, or passing era of Jesus. The second escape valve is related to the first in that even fundamentalist understand (well at least some do) that the books of the bible were written by men, and while they may believe God inspired the writing and may even protect the purity of the message, they understand that this message came though the filters of men. In fact, the only thing in the bible that could be said to have been dictated by God was the Ten Commandments chiseled into stone and supposedly delivered by Moses when he came down from Mt Sanai. These escape valves have allowed Christians the luxury of greater interpretation, and the ability of Christianity to be tempered by, and more readily adapt to, the societies it has enveloped, including adapting to the secular influences of relatively modern governments. The Quran on the other hand, as is believed by learned Muslims and/or Islamic scholars, was directly dictated by Allah. They believe it is Allah's word for word speech. This is probably the primary reason that Islam will never truly be compatible with Christianity, or even Western civilization in general. The barbaric demands in the Quran for world wide dominance is not up for debate. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them...

Oh, and just for fun, you mentioned Christ's Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them to unto you." Wait a minute. Isn't that the same guy that had the Romans crucify himself? Kind of creepy when you think about it, but I digress... :P or maybe ;)



message 11984/11999 2016-12-28 01:37:58 (utc)
redrix
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subject: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
Something of a ramble.

I do not endorse this video, just putting it out there with no foundation of reason or argument.

Does anyone else know the rants of this man?

message 11985/11999 2017-01-10 04:19:32 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to redrix in message #11985:
Ah yes, Pat Condell. I've been watching his videos since he posted his first one. To appreciate him it helps to understand that he started in stand-up comedy. It also helps to have watched enough of his videos to understand his style of delivery. One way or another, I love the guy. If you are a sensitive Christian or Muslim, you may not appreciate him as much as I do.

message 11986/11999 2017-01-10 22:13:42 (utc)
sandpiper49
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to redrix in message #11985:
I thought I might chime in on this. At some point, it appears that most people eventually question their own mortality. Who are we, what are we, is there really some purpose…???

I am now 57 years old. Last year I ended up being hospitalized with 4 operations. Nothing serious or life threating. Came to realize that being healthy is the slowest way to die. Personally, I am a doubting Thomas. Majored in Physic in collage mostly to understand how thing and the universe work. To touch the mind of God?

There are a lot of thoughts, religions, believes explanations on the good life. I grew up in the bible belt with lots of ideas on how I should live. Seemed like a lot a hate was also being taught. If you are not one of us, you are going to hell, etc. So, there are a lot of different thoughts/religions/groups/gangs to line up behind. All I know is that I constantly pick the wrong cashier line at Walmart.

Your Pat Condell video is just another atheist ranting. I put him in the same category as creationist (sorry). There are several much better and more articulate atheist such as Steven Hawking’s, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, the best I have heard is Bart Ehrman (he teaches bible from a historic perspective)

I have looked at a lot of eastern and western philosophies (I like reincarnation). Tried to study how Christianity evolved from the Acts-of-the-Apostles through Constantine. The main reason I have not become atheist of agnostic are the predictions of Jesus in the Jewish bible, the main question that Jesus poses “Who do you say I am?” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZzegaJhlSY) , the resurrection and growth of Christianity. Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian!

So, I am a bad Catholic even though this church has over thought Christianity and has committed all the issues that John warned about in Revelations to the seven churches. I am still bothered about not remembering the Sabbath but instead the day after.



"There are three kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not." And... "Being healthy is the slowest way to die" so just shoot me!"
message 11987/11999 2017-01-10 23:35:18 (utc)
redrix
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to sandpiper49 in message #11987:
Your signature has an odd number of quotes.

The more articulate examples you have given are some people who keep my faith in humanity.

No need to apologize for you opinion of Pat Condell's opinions. I don't put him or his opinions on a pedestal or give merit, just wanted to share a point of view. I'm now listening to Bart Ehrman youtubes.

I haven't followed or associated with any religion or group for quite some time, but I do have an experience unlike any I've ever heard of or encountered since I could remember that proves existence beyond this realm to me. I'm still searching for the association of that experience to this universe as well as the ability to find a way to return to that experience in the same or similar drug-less manner.

message 11988/11999 2017-01-11 04:39:33 (utc)
redrix
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to chuckster in message #11986:
Completely makes sense he started in stand-up; he does have an entertainment like quality in his voice. Some of his context matches some my perceptions of the world from the few videos I've watched. More to hear yet.

No religious association here.

Expect Nothing.
message 11989/11999 2017-01-11 04:49:42 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to redrix in message #11989:
I find him to be hilarious, personally, but at the same time dealing with what I consider serious subject matter. No accounting for taste,I guess, but we all bring our unique perspective into play as we interpret the world. He does get a bit redundant in his later videos, especially when he wanders more into European Politics, but even there, I've found him worth listening to. Of course he is not the only voice out there when it comes to critiquing religious perspective. A favorite of mine is Philhellenes. Of course there is the likes of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Carl Sagan, Neil deGrasse Tyson... DarkMatter 2525 brings animated humor to the subject.

Set aside in paragraph of its own so as not to be missed is Bishop Spong, a retired Episcopalian Bishop that (as a follower of the Christian tradition) brings a refreshing perspective though biblical, and historical religious scholarship, to those that still seek value (and there is quite a bit) to the Christian perspective. I haven't listened to a single lecture/sermon he has given, that I didn't appreciate, or find value in.

Back to Pat, he is simply one more tool, if you will, for disentangling oneself from the snare of organized, irrational, dogmatic, religious thought, but once again in my opinion, worth listening to.

message 11990/11999 2017-01-11 14:01:17 (utc)
sandpiper49
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to redrix in message #11988:
(-: Actually there is an even number of quotes, but then it appears I can not count either? :-) sorry

"There are three kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not." And...
"Being healthy is the slowest way to die" so just shoot me!"
message 11991/11999 2017-01-11 17:42:22 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Guidelines for respecting faith in religion
in reply to sandpiper49 in message #11991:
As they would say on FuckFace, er, I mean FaceBook, "Like" ;)

message 11992/11999 2017-01-11 23:52:25 (utc)
goddessofperversity
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subject: Walpurgis Night
What is this holiday supposed to be? From what I can tell it's a Beltane/May day sort of holiday and then I get told it's about ghosts and Satanism. I mostly dismiss comments like that, and then I see "walpurgis night at the graveyard" party memo.



Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. Douglas Adams
message 11993/11999 2017-05-02 23:38:57 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: Walpurgis Night
in reply to goddessofperversity in message #11993:
Seems to be all of the above and more. A celebration of winter's end, along with a Halloween-like atmosphere, with witches, bonfires, and fun debauchery. From what I've just been reading, a visit to Sweden would be fun during the festivities.

message 11994/11999 2017-05-03 01:49:28 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: On Global Warming, Religion or Politics?
From a discussion in another forum:

It is not a matter of making the transition from fossil fuels to alternative energies overnight, it is a matter of taking the threat to our environment seriously and setting our policies to make that transition happen as rapidly and economically feasible as possible, rather than having 'those in power' squeeze every last drop of monetary profit out of fossil fuels possible, before tackling the problem of transition. Like I said, "What have you profited if you gain the world,(in this case money) but lose your own soul (in this case your Earthly home)?" Instead of applying Pascal's wager to Christianity, consider applying his wager to the equation of whether or not we should act on the 'belief' that man-made global warming is real. It only makes sense to act like it is real. After all, even if man-made global warming isn't behind the record temperatures and melting icecaps and increasingly violent storms, etc, ad-nauseum, we still wind up with a better world, a cleaner environment, and a sustainable energy future for ourselves, our children, and our children's children, provided we act on it as if it were true. If we don't, and it turns out to be real, then we are fucked! On a sidenote: There is a hell of a lot more evidence pointing toward the reality of man-made global warming than there is toward the reality of Jesus. And yet, those that insist on believing in Jesus with no scientific evidence whatsoever, refuse to believe that we may have a hand in our very own destruction, in spite of the almost insurmountable scientific evidence to the contrary. It is a funny old world, don't you think. But really, should we be laughing?


message 11995/11999 2017-05-17 12:33:59 (utc)
redrix
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subject: re: On Global Warming, Religion or Politics?
in reply to chuckster in message #11995:
For some reason, I believe half the global human population or more is clueless about climate change as a whole due to lack of education. Humans who love jesus/allah/prophet-of-choice and deny climate change are less of a threat than those that know about climate change and still perpetuate the wasteful western lifestyle hoping/believing/expecting that someone else will clean up after their stuff.

I believe in order to change the course of this planet's diversity and sustainability of life, the human population will have to either suffer a massive loss of its population (80+%), or change its culture, social structures, and policies regarding everything they do. Neither one of those are going to happen until maybe most major coastal cities are subdued by the ocean, and by that time it will be far too late.

Good luck!

Expect Nothing.
message 11996/11999 2017-05-17 14:28:05 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: On Global Warming, Religion or Politics?
in reply to redrix in message #11996:
I agree with your second paragraph pretty much outright, though the percentage of loss needed may be greater or less. I guess 'Mother' will determine that one for us, whether we agree or not. ;)

As for your first paragraph, is it really a problem of education, or is it a problem of a population that refuses to consider the evidence? I suspect there is a considerable overlap between the subset of humans that love Jesus, etc. and deny climate change, and the subset of those that know about climate change and still perpetuate the wasteful western lifestyle hoping/believing/expecting that someone else (perhaps God/Allah/deity-of-your-choice) will clean up after their stuff. But yes, even without the religious cog in the wheels of reason, it appears that Pogo (from the comic strip) was right when he said, "We have met the enemy, and it is us."



message 11997/11999 2017-05-18 12:25:27 (utc)
goddessofperversity
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subject: re: On Global Warming, Religion or Politics?
in reply to chuckster in message #11995:
This is the same argument I've been saying for years, albeit you and others phrase it better than me.
I did receive some junk mail from a church I've never heard of saying "Environmentalism is a sin because God is going to destroy the world anyway."

you want pepperoni with that?
message 11998/11999 2017-05-18 22:04:48 (utc)
chuckster
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subject: re: On Global Warming, Religion or Politics?
in reply to goddessofperversity in message #11998:
I've often wondered just how much damage, pain, and suffering has occurred thanks to the mindset created by Genesis 1:28. Western Civilization, in no small part influenced by Judaeo-Christian desert sky god mentality, sees mankind set apart from nature, pitting ourselves against the elements, rather than being a part of nature, living in harmony with it. On the flipside, without that conquer and subdue mentality, I doubt we would be typing messages to each other on this purple screen. It's a funny old world.

message 11999/11999 2017-05-19 01:56:19 (utc)
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